Hi,
I am just trying out the trial version but i'm having a strange problem.
When I play a recording back on my DVD player, i'm not getting the sound - only a commentry.
If I go into the options and play around with the sound settings, I can get it on.
Looks like it's got the channels the way round?
Is there any way of fixing this?
I'm recording from .rec files from a Topfield 5800PVR.
Thanks
Ian
Sound channels wrong way round?
Hello Ian,
in the DVD assistant you can select the default audio track. You can move the audio track with drag and drop in the list.
Further info's you will get in the manual of the program by pressing F1.
in the DVD assistant you can select the default audio track. You can move the audio track with drag and drop in the list.
Further info's you will get in the manual of the program by pressing F1.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Ralf
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Ralf
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Let me start off by saying that, until the recent 'Auto Upgrade', I have been successfully and happily using DVR-Studio Pro for many months, with trouble-free results. However, and this is a *BIG* however...
I have recommended DVR-Studio Pro to many users of the message boards at hummy.org.uk and radioandtelly.co.uk, but I have always had to warn them that DVR-SP ALWAYS gets the audio channels the wrong way around. I have even had to post a screenshot showing that the "second" audio track always has to be dragged-and-dropped above the "first" one, because it doesn't seem to recognise that the audio stream with the highest bitrate is almost always, 99.99% of the time will be the primary audio channel and that lower bitrates will be commentary, audio description or so on.
However, a more major problem has arisen since I downloaded v1.62 - the primary audio channels are not showing AT ALL for the first title in any multi-title (batch) disc project. That is, although on the main 'cut' screen the main audio channel is shown as "std 256kbit/s", on the DVD Wizard, only a stream of "English ... 64kbit/s" shows - whereas before I'd get a 64kb/s one followed by the 256kb/s one. So now, I don't have the option to include the correct audio stream (the 256kb/s one) at all - meaning I can no longer use DVR-SP - it's become useless because I can now only burn the first title with the commentary track.
Only titles 2- onwards show the 256kbit/s audio stream - and strangely, don't list the 64kbit/s one - wouldn't be a problem as these are rarely needed, but of course for title 1 there is no solution. What has happened in v1.62 to make the programme ignore audio streams like this? Is it possible to go back to the previous version?
I have recommended DVR-Studio Pro to many users of the message boards at hummy.org.uk and radioandtelly.co.uk, but I have always had to warn them that DVR-SP ALWAYS gets the audio channels the wrong way around. I have even had to post a screenshot showing that the "second" audio track always has to be dragged-and-dropped above the "first" one, because it doesn't seem to recognise that the audio stream with the highest bitrate is almost always, 99.99% of the time will be the primary audio channel and that lower bitrates will be commentary, audio description or so on.
However, a more major problem has arisen since I downloaded v1.62 - the primary audio channels are not showing AT ALL for the first title in any multi-title (batch) disc project. That is, although on the main 'cut' screen the main audio channel is shown as "std 256kbit/s", on the DVD Wizard, only a stream of "English ... 64kbit/s" shows - whereas before I'd get a 64kb/s one followed by the 256kb/s one. So now, I don't have the option to include the correct audio stream (the 256kb/s one) at all - meaning I can no longer use DVR-SP - it's become useless because I can now only burn the first title with the commentary track.
Only titles 2- onwards show the 256kbit/s audio stream - and strangely, don't list the 64kbit/s one - wouldn't be a problem as these are rarely needed, but of course for title 1 there is no solution. What has happened in v1.62 to make the programme ignore audio streams like this? Is it possible to go back to the previous version?
@BizMark:
This is really a strange thing... I suggest you send me a short sample of one of the recordings. We have a tool to extract short bits of a recording:
http://www.haenlein-software.com/HS/dow ... Sample.zip
You can switch languages in the tool on the top right corner.
4Mbyte should be enough to start with. Please fill out the requested form thoroughly, expecially the description field. Please Don't write something like "As posted in the forum". Simply copy the description you wrote above.
And please test the sample file with the software if the problem is showing there, too. Else it would not be of any help.
The sample files are named TST-theoriginalfilname
This is really a strange thing... I suggest you send me a short sample of one of the recordings. We have a tool to extract short bits of a recording:
http://www.haenlein-software.com/HS/dow ... Sample.zip
You can switch languages in the tool on the top right corner.
4Mbyte should be enough to start with. Please fill out the requested form thoroughly, expecially the description field. Please Don't write something like "As posted in the forum". Simply copy the description you wrote above.
And please test the sample file with the software if the problem is showing there, too. Else it would not be of any help.
The sample files are named TST-theoriginalfilname
Kimi, I will send you a sample soon (I've been spending very late nights at the computer for too long over the past week, so I'm trying to take a bit of a break at the moment).
Just to clarify, the audio track order problem has always been present (all previous versions). The only thing that has changed is that in v1.62 only ONE audio stream shows per TS file, and therefore you have no choice at the DVD Wizard stage.
As requested though, I will send a segment but I'm really only just quickly checking messages at the moment. I was up till 3am a couple of nights ago trying to recover data from my crashed PVR HDD!!
Just to clarify, the audio track order problem has always been present (all previous versions). The only thing that has changed is that in v1.62 only ONE audio stream shows per TS file, and therefore you have no choice at the DVD Wizard stage.
As requested though, I will send a segment but I'm really only just quickly checking messages at the moment. I was up till 3am a couple of nights ago trying to recover data from my crashed PVR HDD!!
I've discovered the way to "get around" this problem. Maybe this would have happened in the previous versions after all.
It turns out it all depends on where the video cursor was before you clicked 'DVD Wizard'. Also, you have to be careful that the audio stream dropdown showing under the 'Create MPEG File' button doesn't show the 64kbit/s stream.
I've found all I have to do to get the choice of audio streams is:
Change the 'Create MPEG File' audio stream dropdown from 64kbit/s to the higher number (192 or 256)
Move the video cursor to somewhere around the middle of the title (i.e. not near any cutpoints and not at the start or end of the file)
This way, the DVD Wizard list the audio streams as it should, although it STILL puts the second audio stream first
and still it has to be dragged from 'position 2' to 'position 1'.
There is definitely something not quite right with the interface as far as audio streams are concerned. This is the one thing that stops DVR-SP from being a perfect product. Oh, and the inability to recode 344x576 video streams!! But then that is reasonably outside the scope of this product. Re-encoding is not DVR-SP's game, and all the better for it!!!
It turns out it all depends on where the video cursor was before you clicked 'DVD Wizard'. Also, you have to be careful that the audio stream dropdown showing under the 'Create MPEG File' button doesn't show the 64kbit/s stream.
I've found all I have to do to get the choice of audio streams is:
Change the 'Create MPEG File' audio stream dropdown from 64kbit/s to the higher number (192 or 256) Move the video cursor to somewhere around the middle of the title (i.e. not near any cutpoints and not at the start or end of the file)This way, the DVD Wizard list the audio streams as it should, although it STILL puts the second audio stream first
and still it has to be dragged from 'position 2' to 'position 1'.There is definitely something not quite right with the interface as far as audio streams are concerned. This is the one thing that stops DVR-SP from being a perfect product. Oh, and the inability to recode 344x576 video streams!! But then that is reasonably outside the scope of this product. Re-encoding is not DVR-SP's game, and all the better for it!!!
@BizMark:
you are right, there is a problem related to the position of the cursor. Especially when placed at the end of a recording some audio tracks might disappear. We are working on this.
The order of the tracks is defined by the TV-cannel. It's the way they are listed in the PMT (Program Map Table) inside the recording. To maintain this order is quite important for example in Germany or France to ensure the German or French track stays on top - even if that track isn't the one with the best quality. So we won't change that behaviour.
I might think about an option like "place audio track with best quality first". There already is a similar one: "place AC3 tracks on top" or something like this.
you are right, there is a problem related to the position of the cursor. Especially when placed at the end of a recording some audio tracks might disappear. We are working on this.
The order of the tracks is defined by the TV-cannel. It's the way they are listed in the PMT (Program Map Table) inside the recording. To maintain this order is quite important for example in Germany or France to ensure the German or French track stays on top - even if that track isn't the one with the best quality. So we won't change that behaviour.
I might think about an option like "place audio track with best quality first". There already is a similar one: "place AC3 tracks on top" or something like this.
Thanks for your response Kimi.
Although that behaviour may be best for Europe, in the UK it means many people are burning discs with no sound because the 'Audio Description' stream is, on many shows, present but empty. i.e. Even programmes that do not carry Audio Description still have the stream, but with nothing in it.
It is true that broadcasters' output, here in the UK, still momentarily lose audio stream and AFD (Aspect Format Descriptor) mometarily in between junctions and programme starts, implying that if a stream is not needed for the next programme, it shall not be broadcast. In practice however, this never seems to be the case.
Also - the primary audio stream does not have its language defined here in the UK. The thinking seems to be "well, it would be in English, wouldn't it, being as we're transmitting from the UK?" Only the AD audio stream has its language defined - hence why the REAL audio track shows 'English???' in the DVD Wizard and only shows 'English' on the AD track.
This is almost certainly due to sloppy implementation of the DVB-T (and -S even) standards by UK broadcasters, but this does mean that many UK users end up with a disc that not only does not have the best *quality* audio stream by default, but has a *totally silent* audio stream by default!!! And therein lies the problem which really should be addressed for UK users. Unfortunately, UK broadcasters are not likely to change the way they do things because they have a history of messing up every technical implementation relating to TV ever devised that is data related. PDC (our version of what you would call VPS) was never properly implemented here - it appeared to be, but it was hardly ever synced up to the transmission tapes, only to the scheduled times, meaning it didn't actually provide the intended benefit. Similarly, problems are already being witnessed on the so called 'series link' of Freeview Playback, the general concencus of which will be that the broadcasters here in the UK will never bother to transmit codes to instruct receivers to adjust their recording times, because they're too busy switching feeds in their transmission centre prior to vision mixing, directing and sending to the transmission area than they are keying in instructions into a computer to transmit to the playout server in the transmission centre!!! (phew!)
What you have to understand is that in the UK, TV stations' transmission, scheduling and production areas are very often run with very wide contractual divides between them, meaning that there would be a financial penalty to one party if the other had to supply data over and above their usual contractual requirements when programmes run to time. For instance, the company that provides the EPG data will have a contract with the broadcasters, and the company that transmits the programmes will have a contract with the broadcaster, and getting the two parties to key in and send data over and above their contractual obligations will not be a top priority. It will very often simply not happen at all, to keep financial claims to a minimum for extra work.
You may be unaware of this, but as of around 2 years ago, the BBC's own transmission centre was sold off and is now a private company. That company now has a contract WITH the BBC to 'provide' transmission services. That means if a studio at BBC Television Centre needs to instruct the company that provides the transmission facilities that their programme is going to start 5 minutes late, there will be so many hoops to jump through administratively just to get the transmission time itself altered, that there will be no time and it will be considered too much cost to have somebody else adjusting the EPG and Now/Next data to follow the new transmission time.
Even the other broadcasters tend to run their production and transmission teams as separate businesses who 'buy in' each others' services - nothing is considered 'in house' anymore, and through all of this there will be no financial incentive to hire people just to track changing transmission times (apart from commercial people logging how many advertising minutes may be lost or gained - who will not have the equipment, knowledge, inclination or access rights to key in EPG revisions).
The same will go for audio stream programming. Many of these parameters are programmed into the playout servers en-bloc, meaning that many programmes that were DUE to have Audio Description have the stream 'booked' for transmission even though the audio content may not be delivered on time and inserted into the programme (ingested).
Similarly, some programmes may have been believed NOT to have a secondary audio stream required, or the secondary stream may not have been paid for, and for one of these reasons not set up, but an Audio Description stream added to the programme later, but to keep the cost down of reprogramming the server, not transmitted.
Although that behaviour may be best for Europe, in the UK it means many people are burning discs with no sound because the 'Audio Description' stream is, on many shows, present but empty. i.e. Even programmes that do not carry Audio Description still have the stream, but with nothing in it.
It is true that broadcasters' output, here in the UK, still momentarily lose audio stream and AFD (Aspect Format Descriptor) mometarily in between junctions and programme starts, implying that if a stream is not needed for the next programme, it shall not be broadcast. In practice however, this never seems to be the case.
Also - the primary audio stream does not have its language defined here in the UK. The thinking seems to be "well, it would be in English, wouldn't it, being as we're transmitting from the UK?" Only the AD audio stream has its language defined - hence why the REAL audio track shows 'English???' in the DVD Wizard and only shows 'English' on the AD track.
This is almost certainly due to sloppy implementation of the DVB-T (and -S even) standards by UK broadcasters, but this does mean that many UK users end up with a disc that not only does not have the best *quality* audio stream by default, but has a *totally silent* audio stream by default!!! And therein lies the problem which really should be addressed for UK users. Unfortunately, UK broadcasters are not likely to change the way they do things because they have a history of messing up every technical implementation relating to TV ever devised that is data related. PDC (our version of what you would call VPS) was never properly implemented here - it appeared to be, but it was hardly ever synced up to the transmission tapes, only to the scheduled times, meaning it didn't actually provide the intended benefit. Similarly, problems are already being witnessed on the so called 'series link' of Freeview Playback, the general concencus of which will be that the broadcasters here in the UK will never bother to transmit codes to instruct receivers to adjust their recording times, because they're too busy switching feeds in their transmission centre prior to vision mixing, directing and sending to the transmission area than they are keying in instructions into a computer to transmit to the playout server in the transmission centre!!! (phew!)
What you have to understand is that in the UK, TV stations' transmission, scheduling and production areas are very often run with very wide contractual divides between them, meaning that there would be a financial penalty to one party if the other had to supply data over and above their usual contractual requirements when programmes run to time. For instance, the company that provides the EPG data will have a contract with the broadcasters, and the company that transmits the programmes will have a contract with the broadcaster, and getting the two parties to key in and send data over and above their contractual obligations will not be a top priority. It will very often simply not happen at all, to keep financial claims to a minimum for extra work.
You may be unaware of this, but as of around 2 years ago, the BBC's own transmission centre was sold off and is now a private company. That company now has a contract WITH the BBC to 'provide' transmission services. That means if a studio at BBC Television Centre needs to instruct the company that provides the transmission facilities that their programme is going to start 5 minutes late, there will be so many hoops to jump through administratively just to get the transmission time itself altered, that there will be no time and it will be considered too much cost to have somebody else adjusting the EPG and Now/Next data to follow the new transmission time.
Even the other broadcasters tend to run their production and transmission teams as separate businesses who 'buy in' each others' services - nothing is considered 'in house' anymore, and through all of this there will be no financial incentive to hire people just to track changing transmission times (apart from commercial people logging how many advertising minutes may be lost or gained - who will not have the equipment, knowledge, inclination or access rights to key in EPG revisions).
The same will go for audio stream programming. Many of these parameters are programmed into the playout servers en-bloc, meaning that many programmes that were DUE to have Audio Description have the stream 'booked' for transmission even though the audio content may not be delivered on time and inserted into the programme (ingested).
Similarly, some programmes may have been believed NOT to have a secondary audio stream required, or the secondary stream may not have been paid for, and for one of these reasons not set up, but an Audio Description stream added to the programme later, but to keep the cost down of reprogramming the server, not transmitted.
@BizMark:
I implemented some changes regarding the audio track sorting issue. Please download the latest development version here:
http://www.haenlein-software.com/HS/dow ... 163eng.exe
Activate the "List AC3 audio first and use as default audio track" option and then load a recording. The best mpeg audio quality should now be listed first. If there is a AC3 track, that would then stay on top of the list before the most quality MPEG track.
I implemented some changes regarding the audio track sorting issue. Please download the latest development version here:
http://www.haenlein-software.com/HS/dow ... 163eng.exe
Activate the "List AC3 audio first and use as default audio track" option and then load a recording. The best mpeg audio quality should now be listed first. If there is a AC3 track, that would then stay on top of the list before the most quality MPEG track.
. We are always open to customer proposals as long as they make sense, don't spoil the concept of the product and are technically and commercially realistic...